Magnets, Not Rockets, Could Fling Satellites Into Space
(20 votes, average: 4.4 out of 5)
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by Mike Zazaian October 3, 2006 - 5:50pm, 33 Comments
In theory a satellite, or possibly an intercontinental weapon, would be placed on large-scale circular track and gradually accelerated by magnets until its launch at the end of a full revolution. According to researchers the technique would make launching satellites much more cost effective than previous solutions that used enormous amounts of rocket fuel.
Previous attempts at the magnet-launching method haven’t been successful though, as the use of a straight track was conducive to excessive g forces during launch. Because the straight-track method required such an excessive, instantaneous boost of speed, the high g forces would damage whatever was being launched. The use of a circular track remedies these g force issues by allowing the device to come up to speed slowly over a period of several hours.
But even with a circular track, there are a number of kinks to work out of the process before it become a viable launch solution. Scientists will have plenty of time to remedy these problems, however, as Air Force officials have given the okay to a two-year development project for the technology.
[via New Scientist Space]
There’s a big problem with this: Instead of a short burst of high G, you get a longer period of gradually building G and centrifugal forces which has the same effect.
If you actually read the article you linked to more thoroughly, you’ll see that the argument for the circular accelerator is NOT the high G of a linear track - that’s equally a problem with the circular track (in fact, the article site a requirement of being able to handle 2000 G).
The argument for the circular track is that providing the extremely high burst of energy needed to accelerate along a short linear track is a problem, and accelerating for a longer period of time might remove that problem.
Vidar Hokstad
does anyone really think we will ever see this for real?
http://www.golfnorwich.com/
http://www.golfnorwich.com/
Only if someone decides to start WWIII and has the damned-fool idea of getting us involved.
Without that, some creationist congressman will get a bug up his ass about this kind of expensive research, pull the plug, and get re-elected.
dave
blah blah blah… war blah blah blah…. global warming… blah blah blah corruption in politics. no shit you fairy, what a startling revelation… I feel so enlightened after your witty internet comment. Thank you for bringing the light of knowledge to this dark corner of the web. captain fucking obvious. Also; change your tampon before you whine some more, Dave.
Prick
such hostility. Can we not share opinions freely without getting our (Prick’s) panties in a twist?
Pacifist
I would think that the main advantage would be in fuel saved.
Neal
As with Vidar comment, the g forces wouldn’t really be the problem, the HARP project tested this extensively and showed that you could quite happily launch a “delicate” satellite with a artillery piece if you took some precutions
ALex
*smacks Vidar for talking about the fictitious force known as centrifugal* (Also understands most people reading this would not understand centripetal forces) Oh and for those who find the whole idea too far fetched remember that this is how most modern roller coasters are accelerated.
Chouette
*smacks Chouette for smacking vidar, it is centrifugal not centripetal
:P
Joe
You’re all in no position to judge this project now shut up you fool!!!!!!!!!!
Stop Talking
Other than the problem of trading high linear acceleration for centrifugal acceleration being a real deal killer, accelerating ANYTHING to near orbital speed that far into the atmosphere is just going to burn it up before it gets to orbit. Never going to work. Flawed concept.
Now, make that a LONG, real LONG, linear mag lev accelerator and put it at about 20,000 feet elevation and you might just have a chance at a PARTIALLY accelerated mag lev launch. You’d still need some type of thrust engine to make it all the way to orbit, but it could serve as a “first stage” - at 20K feet plus!
Bob Woolf
We could really hock a nice lugee at Russia with that thing (for old times sake.)
Izabel
*doesn’t slap anybody* Centrifugal force is really just another name for inertia. Inertia is the force which explains Newton’s law “A body in motion tends to stay in motion, and a body at rest tends to stay at rest” If the centripetal force is released then, yes, the object will fly outwards, but only because of inertia, not centrifugal force. Two words, same force.
Random dude
I had this idea a while ago its nice to see its finally being circulated
dfh
I don’t think this is very feasible. The power of the magnets needed to accelerate the object could also very well damage any small mechanical, or electronic storage devices. That’s what magnets do . . . .
Brandon
Okay so i admit i didn’t read the article. But what happens if the damn think jumps the track on the last revolution right before the launch. If it hits my house I hope my wifes home.
all i want for xmas
I wouldn’t put the payload on the track.. just a big mass.. the payload would instead sit at the end of the ramp with a big hook on it, waiting for the mass to go by
David
Insead of launching stellites into space this maglauncher could launch building materials into space that could be put together later, such as for building space stations, platforms and things of that nature using space walks. That way you could send supplies into space in greater amounts. It would be more efficent and cost effective and cut down pollution from chemical rockets.
lowell
Interesting arguements. It appears to me that instead of inertial force to create speed to overcome gravitational pull that the concern should be focused on creating an equal gravitational opposite ( plus) to accelerate an object into space. Gravitational forces hold our universe together and it appears to me that this is the simple answer to the problem.The theory has been widely held that space travel could be accomplished utilizing an opposite gravitational pull of a planet to accelerate a craft much like a boomer rang.
J Thelen
The article link is broken. Here’s a better one: http://www.newscientist.com/ar.....orbit.html
I vaguely remember escape velocity at sea level being 11km/s. The article mentions 10km/s and 8km/s so I’m guessing that the ring must be a fair way above sea level.
Some ideas have been floated in the past to create a very large Helium filled platform that would float 10 or 20 km above the Earth from which traditional rocket launches could happen. Probably not quite what J Thelen was talking about but a similar concept.
David Keech
Thanks David Keech for pointing out the inconsistencies in figures. Indeed the “escape” velocity is 11 km/s (the velocity at which the object can escape entirely the Earths’ attraction). The orbital velocity is only 8 km/s (the velocity at which the object does not fall back on the Earth, but turns around it). But these must be counted at a point where the friction of atmosphere can be neglected (some hundreds of km). The advantage of firing the objects from high up in the sky is not so much in gaining on these figures (a fraction of a percent), but on gaining on the excess energy to overcome the friction down below. But maintaining and supplying a station 10 or 20 km high up is quite a business in itself.
Trassiorf
Why not use a very large rubber band? Or maybe a gigantic straw that we can use like an enormous blow pipe.
Einstein
fuck u all
get a life
jenny
For a couple of the other posts. Nasa has technologies to keep space shuttles from burning up on re-entry. Why not wrap the pay load in the same type material. Also for another post. Who says it has tracks. It could possobly be floating in a magnetic field. Why would you float it miles in the sky. This is an experiment not an actual attempt at launching it into space. As the experiment progresses then that may be the goal. And I’m sure if they already achieve advertised speeds of 8km/sec then it probably can go much faster already.The US Air force isn’t going to just give away all it’s information for other nations to copy, and use against us. Also if it is wrapped in a material sensitive to magnetic fields that could burn off, and have a burn proof shield underneath then you wouldn’t need a mag-lev, or balloon to launch it. It would take quite a large ballon or many multiple ballons to lift a million magnets or coils plus whatever else is involved that high into the sky. And a mag-lev elevator…come on homey if they had one of those then why would they need this for anything other than a weapon. Which is one the third reichs concepts,by the way, minus the magnets.
dude76
This idea is so stolen from Gundam Seed. But it’s nice to start seeing ideas from modern science fiction come to reality. Maybe we can start building an actual Gundam instead of a limited functionality statue.
Merdril
To reach the speed needed to escape the earths gravity would you not have the same burn up problems , like on re-entry except in reverse. Its not impossible ..but you would need serious heat shields.
Maurice
Personally, I think at least initially this method would probably replace the first stage of the launch vehicle. What makes launching conventional rockets so expensive is taking fuel to lift the vehicle and the fuel for later on. Get rid of even one stage and the extra fuel needed to lift that fuel and you have a saved money, plus the reuse factor which might actually end up being good (as the Shuttle was supposed to be).
Just to be picky and overall annoying, you can never leave the gravitational reach of any object. Escape velocity is the speed that you need to achieve so that you don’t fall back.
Also, the genius that brought up negative affects of magnetic fields on electronics, think for a second. Why would they already be in so far with this, all the money spent, without a way to get around that particular issue?
A6M4
Joe, it is in fact centripetal. Study physics before you attempt to correct someone more knowledgeable than yourself.
Geoff
@Merdril–It’s a concept explored by Robert Heinlein in “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” written in 1966. He describes this exact rig that is used to transport goods from the moon to earth. If it’s ripped off from anywhere, it’s there.
Aero
Fucking magnets…how do they work?
Will
escape velocity depends on the angle at wich you are moving. if you are shooting straight up then yes you would need that high velocity. but if you have a craft that can get up to the altitude on standard rockets, once you got that high you can switch to a different type of propulsion and leave earth with out ever having to hit that high velocity. it would take longer sure, but wouldnt need all that fuel.
Centrifugal Force: represents the effects of inertia that arise in connection with rotation and which are experienced as an outward force away from the center of rotation.
Centripetal force is a force that makes a body follow a curved path: it is always directed orthogonal to the velocity of the body, toward the instantaneous center of curvature of the path.
in this both Centripetal, and Centrifugal forces are at work.
No One